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Some questions regarding the latest eyecatchers...

spotteralex 

Member
Joined in March 2015
Posts: 12
Posted 27 August 2016 - 23:23 CET

Hello everyone,

I think we've already had this discussion some time ago, but nevertheless I feel the need to share my thoughts with you...

I used to think that 'eyecatchers' are supposed to be something unusual, something new, something inspiring. So how come one ordinary 90-degree-panning with no nice light or anything that adds some extra value to the picture and a standard cockpit shot at night have been chosen as 'eyecatchers', while there are loads and loads of other, much more creative, atmospheric, different, simply beautiful pictures not getting any attention? I do not know the exact way 'eyecatchers' are selected, but when I look at some of the latest, it does not seem to be the right one to me.

Together with the inconsistency of the screening process, which also has been discussed here several times, it is really frustrating for me to see ordinary photos becoming an 'eyecatcher' or even just crap photos getting accepted while in the meantime I and a lot of friends of mine get many rejects for no obvious reason (motive? this is a creative aviation photgraphy site, a plane behind some flowers or its reflection in sunglasses is creative) or due to minor details. Don't get me wrong, I do not claim for eyecatchers or anything, but it is really upsetting for me to see normal pictures becoming eyecatchers and really great ones just getting ignored... It's no pleasure anymore for me uploading pictures, watching pictures of others and getting inspired by them (which for my understanding is one of the main intentions of this site). It is a real pity because ap.net is such a great alternative to all the standard websites like jp.net, a.net etc.

What do you think about this?

With best regards,

spotteralex

Daniel Expósito 
Member
Joined in January 2016
Posts: 4
Posted 28 August 2016 - 01:02 CET

Hey Alex, I think the same as you do, I ve discuss this with other members of AP and we all think the same, this is frustrating... there are eyecatcher which are just normal photos, normal pannings, normal nocockpit shots... well, them are nice, but in my opinion them not deserve to be eyecatchers, but the opinion that matter is the one from the screeners, not the mine. Anyway, I ve to say there are a lot of eyecatchers which are eyecatchers because them deserve it, at least for me, I dont claim eyecatchers, just wanna see the ones that really are, but I know I am not a screener, just a photographer more here, so I know I ve to respect their decisions.. but just I thought share another opinion more about this is fine.

About the screening progress, it is frustrating when screeners reject pictures without any reason, just appears 'editors decided to not publish it' is like, can you give me a reason for try to solve it...? Well, let's see if at least that changes, best regards.

Daniel

ZuluRR 

Member
Joined in July 2014
Posts: 17
Posted 28 August 2016 - 17:24 CET

Interesting topic out here. I have to agree with both of you.

It is indeed the desicion of the admins which picture should be EC and I agree with them very often thinking "Wooow, stunning work!"

But on the other hand I also think "Wait what!?" sometimes, especially on the two mentioned ECs which frustrated me a little bit :(

But these are just my 2 cents and I think the selection of ECs is not an easy job...

With best regards

spotteralex 

Member
Joined in March 2015
Posts: 12
Posted 29 August 2016 - 15:11 CET

Thanks for your postings, nice to hear that I'm not the only one who thinks that.

And yet again we have a new eyecatcher here... Normal overedited bodyshot, halos around main gear, oversharpened. I just don't understand it.

Gerard van Oostrom 
Member
Joined in December 2012
Posts: 59
Posted 30 August 2016 - 15:44 CET

It is very simple guys.

The screeners decide what is an eyecatcher and not me or you.

It is like art. Someone likes a painting or a statue and you don't like it. Endless discussions for nothing.

The only thing you can do is manoevre yourself in a position that you can make such decisions and I promiss you that is very difficult.

The other thing you can do is accept it and enjoy all the pictures you like on this site!

Ramon Kok 

Member
Joined in December 2014
Posts: 19
Posted 31 August 2016 - 16:54 CET

You could maybe don't complain, go outside and take pictures and try getting them yourself, it is a personal opinion of people and a opinion is not wrong.

KIMURA Tetsushi 

Member
Joined in October 2014
Posts: 5
Posted 3 September 2016 - 08:46 CET

I agree with you, Alex.

Editors here sometimes select ugly over-photoshopped photos as eyecatchers ignoring many other beautiful photos.

But it is a personal taste and only the editors can select eyecatchers. Opinions are different for each one.

Remember there are many other websites and magazines where you can show your works.

hector
Member
Joined in September 2016
Posts: 5
Posted 4 September 2016 - 22:48 CET

Unfortunatley we only have the screeners opinions and their decision is final, bascically if a screener does not like a photo it does not get acceptted. Same applies to the eyectachers

Also you will notice at least 90% of eye catchers come from full members

Craig Stevens 

Full member
Joined in February 2013
Posts: 11
Posted 5 September 2016 - 00:44 CET

As a full member myself it is really sad to see all these comments on this particular thread and I find it really disrespectful that certain members are picking certain photographs and criticising them. What all you standard members need to remember is that all the full members on this site started from the bottom like yourself. I find it ironic that the people who have the problem on this thread don't have a single eye-catcher between them. The screeners and editors on the site do this voluntarily and don't have to do this and if they feel an image deserves an eye catcher then they'll reward it with one and if you disagree again it's a matter of opinion. If this site gave eye catchers out willy nilly then the demand for becoming a full member would decrease and people would lose interest.

So if you put as much effort into going to the airport and creating an eye catcher as you do moaning on a thread then maybe you'll get an eye catcher.

It has taken me 3 years to gain full membership status it's something that's not going to happen overnight. The Rome wasn't built in a day.

Coenraad Balt 

Member
Joined in January 2013
Posts: 30
Posted 5 September 2016 - 12:45 CET

I totally agree with you Craig.

Joined AP.net in january 2013 and after not using this site for a period i've started to upload on a regular base since october 2014. Got my first EC in april of this year, and very proud of it. I know it can be frustrating when you think you got a EC worthy picture and the screeners turn it down or it gets in the database and it turns out to be one of many. So just be patient.

And if getting EC's on AP.net is your first world problem, than i would love to have your live... ;-)

Nigel Paine 
Full member
Joined in November 2008
Posts: 52
Posted 5 September 2016 - 13:29 CET

Another thing several people don't realise is that many full members on here (myself included) achieved full membership when part of the qualifying criteria was to get 3 eyecatchers in 3 months ! The list of full members when that was in force was tiny compared to the list of full members now, so in all honesty, FM status is really quite achieveable now.

As for "at least 90% of eyecatchers come from full members", well, full members photos are not screened so they literally have to 'catch the eye' of the senior admin whilst they are just thumbnails on the latest uploads screen. You have far more chance of catching their eye when every one of your submissions is looked at in detail by the screening team.

My advice would be just enjoy your photography, upload your best efforts and see what happens, full membership is basically out of your control. I would guess that most full members would tell you that full membership 'just happened' for them, it wasn't something they were expecting to achieve.

Coenraad Balt 

Member
Joined in January 2013
Posts: 30
Posted 5 September 2016 - 14:03 CET

And as seen Nigel, Your pics are not over-editted... Very nice and 'normal' aviation pics!

JPC van Heijst 

Full member
Joined in October 2007
Posts: 63
Posted 6 September 2016 - 02:32 CET

Just my 2 cents here....

I think we all should consider the 'Eyecatchers' not as a selection of the best images of the site, but as a selection from the senior admins to show both veteran visitors and new viewers what's out here on the website in the glimpse of an eye (hence the term Eyecatcher).

Also, I think its pretty fair that some new and less experienced photographers get some exposure sometimes in the form of an EC, and not just the highly experienced photographers that have a somewhat higher level of photography.

Sure, I can imagine this balancing feels a bit unfair sometimes. But its not about being fair or not. The owners and editors of the site have to find a balance between keeping everybody happy, attracting viewers and showing the best, including some promising new and learning photographers.

Overall, I think AP.net houses some of the most talented aviation-photographers in the world and the site has found a delicate, though not easy and perfect, balance in showing the general public on whats out here.

On top of that, I see how many photographers have grown massively in the last few years, only proving me that real talent always keeps learning and improving.

Just look at the comparable sites like jp.net or a.net and see the difference.

Im a proud member of this site and, even though I do not always think the EC's are the 'best of', I am sure that this is the number one site in the world where new and veteran aviation photographers get a fair share of exposure.

Boytronic 

Full member
Joined in March 2015
Posts: 55
Posted 6 September 2016 - 09:41 CET

I wanted to share my thoughts too regarding everlasting topic „EC“

First of all AP EC isn't Holy Grail unless if it's your only goal to become FM asap. That can happen in three cases: only if you're experienced photographer, well talented and you have the chance to be in the right place in the right time. Even then it's not your ticket to get an EC! Some of the world's greatest photos since the film invention were taken by coincidence (newcomers to photo world should read some literature!) Getting an EC isn't olympic discipline, it's just a“ ticket“ to become FM. And when you become one then what?? No screening and let's upload the crap? There are so many talented photographs here that are not FM's, never had any EC but I love to see their works. That's the whole point of AP – an exhibition of creative spotters gathered in one place where you can share knowledge and experience. All of you with envy issues will NOT have progress in your lives in any sphere of living.

I'll give you my own example: I am in photography and video over 20 years, I know my knowledge and I still learn and I will learn until I die. I've had my issues with some of the editors and now when time passed and I look back I realized I've learned a lot from some of them, sometimes I was right and I had strong technical arguments to appeal and sometimes they were right. Bottom line, I improved my spotting genre photography and most important of all, I've learned the „AP way spotting“ which I consider attractive and creative. Do I think sometimes some photos don't deserve to be published at all here? Yes I do! But as mentioned, this is a private web page, they have their own rules and It's up to all of us shall we accept them or not. If you think you're not „treated“ well on AP and your photos deserve higher audience, and you're God given talent…creating your own FB page it's just 2 minute job. Or create your own web page and struggle by yourself throughout the net and you'll soon realize you're not as good as you think.

I don't post on other aviation sites simply because they are not „creative and different“ friendly and documentary photo with tons of airplane data is boring to me regardless I am PPL student and into aviation since childhood. Registrations matters to me only when communicating with TWR.

About „over-editing“. I bet 98% photos published here are edited by some software or filter, at least sharpened. Editing photos has become an art for itself and if you know how to properly use the tools you can make an average photo attractive to anyone. In film industry post production (coloring) has become standard and believe me films you watch are over edited but you don't notice it. From this point of view stop for a second and think; would you rather see a photo of beautiful girl top dressed, with professional make up on, perfect lighting, soft skin, attractive posing….or you rather watch photo of a fat chick , no make up, zits all over, holding can of beer….? Both it's just a matter of taste and I respect differences but all photos that we see since inventon of PS (and even before in labs) are edited to show beautiful girls more beautiful, nice places and landscapes more attractive. You can „over-edit“ photo to still look WOW but as I sad that's only when know how to use tools the right way.

I consider myself an average spotter and it's fun for me in my spare time, no competition at all. I became FM and believe me it just pushes me more in terms of quality to justify that status. I have 4 EC and 3 of them were taken by GoPro 2. And I have 15000 euros invested in photo equipment (now how frustrating that sounds!) but hey, I knew when to take off, where to put the camera, how to edit it and senior admins found it attractive enough to select them as EC. Simple as that. No rules!

Good things come to those who wait!

Matt Reynolds 

Full member
Joined in December 2015
Posts: 28
Posted 6 September 2016 - 11:40 CET

Well written Christian and Boytronic...couldn't agree more.

We aren't just here for the EC's, sure they are nice as some form of recognition from our peers and the people we see as mentors, but actually its the taking of the photos, days out with friends that matters.

I have criticised some decisions on here before, but I realise now, that isn't mine or your places to do so. The screeners and admins on here, they have a tough job, its a thank less task and one that can become very labour intensive, so I take my hat off to them and say 'Thank you' for doing a great job.

I am enjoying some of the current crop of EC's, but for me my favourite part of the day is to sit back with a coffee and look at the latest uploads, see what others have achieved and try to learn from this...I have been doing this hobby/passion for 5 years now, yes I have been fortunate enough to gain FM status, but that was all about being in the right place at the right time!

SO lets get behind AP, as it is a truly wonderful site and something I'm proud to be a part off.

Matt

spotteralex 

Member
Joined in March 2015
Posts: 12
Posted 6 September 2016 - 18:15 CET

@Craig Stevens, I don't say anything against the photos, of course they are nice, but as I already said I heard that an eyecatcher should be something unusual, new, inspring, which some of the recent eyecatchers simply are not. Also I don't see what is the problem in criticising eyecatchers not having one myself... So what?

@JPC van Heijst, mostly I agree with you, but I looked through the latest eyecatchers and only very few of them were taken by members that didn't have any before that. I don't think that FMs or even screeners have the need to be pushed by ridiculous ECs.

@Boytronic, I do not have any envy issues, I am completely aware of the fact that most of my photos are not really interesting and that this site is not a competition of getting the most ECs or becoming a FM as fast as possible. When I'm writing of beautiful pictures being ignored I do not mean my own ones.

@Matt Reynolds "for me my favourite part of the day is to sit back with a coffee and look at the latest uploads, see what others have achieved and try to learn from this..." fully agree with you on this.

Again, I am not jealous and I do not have anything against the photographers, it is just upsetting for me to see this. Also I think it started not long ago, we didn't have this amound of ordinary pictures as ECs a couple of month ago. Maybe I am taking the whole thing about ECs to serious, but this is just my opinion. :)

Boytronic 

Full member
Joined in March 2015
Posts: 55
Posted 6 September 2016 - 19:51 CET

@spotteralex I was talking in general, nothing to do with you particularly. Nothing to do with your works at all! Just my observation on EC topic that someone brings out almost every month.

hector
Member
Joined in September 2016
Posts: 5
Posted 7 September 2016 - 13:55 CET

Well here an idea. Why don't they base eyecatchers on the most views as I am sure i some case a "normal" image is viewed more than the eyecatchers chosen by the admins

Ramon Kok 

Member
Joined in December 2014
Posts: 19
Posted 7 September 2016 - 14:49 CET

@hector, so you want to make it a popularity contest?

The way people will get EC is kissing up to people and sharing it to death in every damn group/social media outlet. That is total nonsense, there is no way to regulate it, besides what happens when a shot is shared by the FB/Twitter of AP itself, does that count or not?

Let the editors do what they keep doing, this a dumb discussion that comes and goes every few months, if you feel you don't like this upload to social media, no screeners/editors there and you can claim it is an EC all you want.

hector
Member
Joined in September 2016
Posts: 5
Posted 7 September 2016 - 17:16 CET

Calm down it was only a suggestion!!!!!! And as for kissing up, its already going on here there are certain members who never comment or post in the forums until it something negative about the admins!

And members both full and normal already exploit social media to gain extra like/views by linking directly to their images on here.

Nice to see the non full members are allowed their opinion for it only to be called DUMB and if you dont like post else where.

Kelvin Jahae 

Member
Joined in November 2013
Posts: 54
Posted 8 September 2016 - 13:23 CET

Great topic!! Im going to grap some popcorn!!

Anna Kucharz 

Member
Joined in July 2012
Posts: 40
Posted 8 September 2016 - 14:10 CET

Hector, you were not called DUMB, don't go too far.

However I personally think that getting EC just by number of likes is not the best idea. Is there any site out there, a comparable one, working on such basis? I don't recall any.

Everyone is allowed to express his/hers own opinion and yes, if you don't like the site and its rules, you can always search for the one that suits you better.

I have done it already a few times and it is much better than wasting time on complaining.

I do have several question marks about some ECs and accepted/rejected photos too, but again - if that will make me feel sick, I will just leave it, rather than fighting for changes in MY way.

And hey - yes, EC is really nice to get but if you are taking photos just to gain it, maybe you should think about the base of your passion again. EC means a lot and nothing (sorry Senior Adminds) at the same ime, it's just a sign that a person or two really love your photo, matter of personal taste. And there are hell of a lot of photos loved by crowds (number of likes), yet not awarded wit EC title...

Amer Konjhodzic 

Member
Joined in March 2015
Posts: 2
Posted 8 September 2016 - 16:24 CET

Site is good how it is now :)

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